The Lisbon thing & Fabfiveferg putting his foot in it

[Richie L]

The article exists through omission.Let me explain.Three years ago a company from another jurisdiction set up in Sweden.They paid their workers their national rate along with terms and conditions which applied in their country.Most of the workers were from the foreign jurisdiction.The Swedish unions naturally objected and the company went to the European High Court (the highest authority in an enlarged Europe) and found in favour of the company.Check it out its true.What I feel might happen here has already happened somewhere else.There is no provision in Lisbon to prevent this.It is not expressly stated.The European High Court can still make its own decisions on these matters.Our government have said it cannot happen here because we have a minimum wage but back to my original point....IT WILL NOT BE OUR GOVERNMENT THAT MAKE THAT DECISION WHEN WE ENDORSE LISBON....It will be the European High Court.These are facts not rhetoric.I believe what I see with my own eyes and not what Brian Cowen says might happen.Its in the Lisbon Treaty because theres nothing to stop it in the Lisbon Treaty.

[ger]

Well then how can the treaty provide jobs? & recovery.

Never said it would.

Most of my reasons for voting yes are for me and my family, there is a fundamental lack of individual rights in this country.

On an economic level the deal we are getting from the ECB is basically a bailout of the country. No money from the ECB and the banks go bust.

The way money flows into the economy is through loans, only about 5% is notes.
If no new loans are given then the money does not reach business and people lose their jobs. As old loans are paid off this money leaves the economy and we get a contraction of the money supply and further recession.

So indirectly we are on life support from Europe at the moment.

[ger]

The article exists through omission

So it does not exist.

I am aware of the case you mentioned but this is a separate court judgement and its speculation to say this will happen again.
Courts can go either way, they could also set a precedent to strengthen workers rights and entitlements.

Why only look on the negative side.

I personally will have more rights under lisbon than i do now.

from my first post.
'Personally speaking, I'm self employed (have no rights to anything, unemployment Benefit, Sick benefit, disability Benefit and even though i pay PRSI I am only entitled to non contributory pension.

Add to that I am an atheist, so my children are not welcome in 95% of our national schools, even though my taxes are funding them.

Up until recently I was one half of a cohabiting couple so had no rights to my own children, no guardianship rights nada."

[ger]

(i'm really enjoying this, at last a debate with someone on the yes side, thanks ger)
Ps have you voted yet? are we turning you?

Thanks Ivan, I'm not trying to persuade anyone to vote yes, just love a good debate, don't mind being the only one on the Yes side either.

I like the philosophy of 'contrary to popular opinion'

[ger]

stig wrote

numerous times.....

Well were is it, can't you find it, or do you care?

[Richie L]

Speculation to say that business will not gravitate to lowering their running costs in an ever increasing globalised competitive market ??I dont believe that.
The court might as you say rule in favour of the worker but they have not done so to date with respect to this issue!!!Its more "might stuff" again.Its Brian Cowen again.And why is this a seperate issue?.We are debating workers right in an enlarged Europe and an opportunity to provide legislation which protects them.I have quoted an actual case of abuse.If you think it does not exist because you cant read it, whats the point in debating the pros and cons of anything because if its written it must be true and if its not written it was never thought of!Come on please.

[ger]

If you think it does not exist because you cant read it,

ger wrote
I am aware of the case you mentioned

We are debating workers right in an enlarged Europe and an opportunity to provide legislation which protects them

I'm debating the pros and cons of the lisbon treaty, read my post above, what about my rights?

court might as you say rule in favour of the worker but they have not done so to date with respect to this issue!!!

You have far more rights than you did 25/50/100 yrs ago.
Almost all the rights you enjoy today were won by the people through the courts.

[Richie L]

We win rights in referanda too.Here is an opportunity to say I dont believe the treaty is protective enough.I dont believe the rights of migrant workrers are best served by this treaty.Can you honestly say they are given whats already happened in Sweden.?You make some credible points but dont assume I dont "think" before I post a comment.I standby what I say.There is provision in the Lisbon Treaty for the abuse of workers rights.New migrant workers will be paid below the minimum wage based on the European High Court precedent ruling.Some already are in this country but obviously that is not happening because Brian Cowen said we have a minimum wage and that covers everything.Thats the only defence the government have offered on this topic.Its a con.Sorry it took so long to come back as I was out voting.

[sabik]

No matter what side your on get in you car(or walk haha!!) and get down and VOTE!

[Steve]

1 vote for "best thread ever"

[Stig]

1 vote for "best thread ever"

please, back on topic (like you should know better Mr. Admin )

[Steve]

easy tiger, just sayin' is all..
It helped me get off the fence and go down and vote.

[Stig]

easy tiger, just sayin' is all..
It helped me get off the fence and go down and vote.

gotcha tho'!

[Ivan]

1 vote for "best thread ever"

yeah but what are we going to talk about now........

[Stig]

1 vote for "best thread ever"

yeah but what are we going to talk about now........

well, we'll have the result tomorrow so we can have a discussion about the fall out, because I think it's going to be a NO again....but we'll see.