poly bushes - flo flex

[johnc55]

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Mazda-MX5-Miata-Euno ... 5adb334181

just ordered....

[MX5Steve]

Cheap! Anyone recommend them to ye.

[sidewaysreilly]

i put a set in the rear last week, early days but feel good and quality is fine.

[johnc55]

Have been looking around at the reviews and reports from other forums. (fora?)

Was going to order the Energy Suspension ones from 949racing

http://949racing.com/energy-suspension- ... miata.aspx

They got good write-ups and reports. Also had read good things about Floflex and when the half price offer came up today, decided to just go for it.

Hope they work out ok.

JohnC

[cseaj]

JUST RECIEVED IN POST TODAY MYSELF NOW TO ROOT OUT MY SPARE SET OF WISHBONES AND SEND FOR BLAST AT PODWERCOATERS

[johnc55]

moved from tech day topic....

Completed the replacement of the bushes and springs/shocks last Saturday in Dom's place - would have been impossible for me on my own without Dom's experience and ability.

Checking ride height today and discovered that one of the front upper bushes has worked itself loose and almost out of the swingarm. Had anticipated this problem on the rear lowers with the install account from Sean and had fitted large washers there. Is not obvious that this could be an issue at the front.

Hope I can link or embed the image ok... Showing front drivers side. Upper Swingarm (the one with the very long bolt). Rear leg of swingarm. Bush towards the front is out.

In case you have replaced the fronts and not checked recently.... have a look.
In case you have still to do this using floflex bushes - check for a solution before fitting.

Anyone else having this problem? Any ideas?

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RyNNjUu8JAqfgLUQhhatcw?feat=directlink

JohnC

[Steve]

Whooops will check tonight, thanks!

[johnc55]

Let me know what you find. Curious if it is just mine. Have contacted Floflex about this but no reply yet.

I guess the right size washer and reduce the crush tube as Sean says would be the fix.

John c

[johnc55]

Completed the fix for the bushes moving out of place on the front upper swingarm.

Link to pics here.....

http://picasaweb.google.com/john.curran55/FloFlexBushes?feat=directlink

Following is the email I sent to FloFlex. (bit long but someone might be interested...)

NB If you have fitted Floflex or any other 2 part bushes, please check the front uppers and rear lowers that they have not moved out of place.

If you have bought a set and have yet to fit, you will need to modify one bush and crush tube and fit a washer at the front upper swingarm and fit washers at the rear lowers. See email....

JohnC

email to Floflex....

to Rebecca <rebecca@floflex.co.uk>
date Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 1:51 AM
subject Re: [SPAM] Re: FloFlex Enquire
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details 1:51 AM (49 minutes ago)

Rebecca,

I completed the fix for the issue with the front upper swingarm bushes today. I hope the following information will be of some help to you in rectifying this issue and in warning other buyers of a potentially dangerous issue. I am of the opinion that if left unfixed, the front upper swingarm bushes would fail very quickly with potentially fatal results.

The issue is that because your bushes are supplied as two pieces unlike the original one piece bush, there is potential for some of the bush halves to work loose over the retaining bolt head because the internal diameter of the bush is larger than the retaining bolt head.

This issue does not occur in every location but only on the rear lower swingarms and the front upper. In all other locations, the external face of the bushes are sandwiched between location ears or flanges of the sub-frame. In the case of the rear lowers, the external faces of the bushes are retained by the bolt head and nut. Simply using a washer of the correct size here prevents any possibility of the bush working loose over the bolt/nut head.

In the case of the front upper swingarm with the very long retaining bolt, the centre section of this bolt passes through a tube on the sub-frame. At the front and rear of this tube, the swingarm bushes are held by the bolt head and nut. The outer ends of the bolt - at the bolt head and the nut end, have original heavy washers to retain the bushes as these are not facing a sub-frame flange. This inner tube however, at the rear end, is small enough for the bush to work loose over.

The solution I fabricated was to remove the bushes and crush tube from this location (upper swingarm, rear arm) and insert a washer between the tube and the swingarm. In order to do this, I had to shorten the crush tube and the outer face of the bush by the thickness of the washer so that it could fit between the tube and the bush face.

The washers I used were similar to the original washers used at the bolt head and nut. These measure 47mm ext diam, 18mm int diam and 3mm thickness. (I would have preferred to use thinner 2mm washers of hardened steel but these were unavailable to me.)

The attached photos show various images of the problem and the fix that I made:
- Upper swingarm rear bush out of place having worked its way over the tube.
- Upper swingarm front bush is ok as the tube here is large enough to retain the bush from moving
- Shortened crush tube, bush and washer both in situ and apart.

In my opinion, the full solution to this issue would be to mould a washer in place at manufacturing stage in these particular bushes and to clearly alert users to the correct location of these bushes.

The rear lower ones simply need washers supplied and do not require changes to manufacturing.

1 of the 4 front uppers (type C) on each side will need this washer to be fitted. This also requires the crush tube to be reduced in length by the thickness of the washer. Another alternative is to replicate what I have done. Reduce the flange thiskness of the bush by the thickness of the washer and similarly the crush tube. However, moulding the washer into this bush would, in my opinion, be a better quality solution.

I hope this information is of some help to you.

This problem may or may not be the same for MX5 NA (Mk1). My car is a 1999 NB (Mk2)

For the Mk2 also, the anti-roll bar links are different. The supplied bushes are not required and cannot be used on the Mk2, only on the Mk1.

For the Mk2, the rear anti-roll bar bushes are smaller diameter than those you supply (which are for Mk1) The correct internal diameter rear anti-roll bar bushes would be 11mm. The outer dimensions for fitting into the anti-roll bar brackets are the same.

Because of the danger involved in this issue, I would be grateful if you would let me know when you have:
1. made the necessary modifications to your bushes
2. changed your product fitting sheet to include a warning about these 2 locations and the need for washers.

I am sharing this information with members of the MX5 Ireland forum and the RoadsterIreland forum.

I will await confirmation from you that you are making the necessary safety changes immediately. If I do not receive this confirmation, I reserve the right to contact the relevant safety standards authorities in the UK. I trust you understand this.

If you do modify the manufacture of these bushes, I would be grateful if you would supply me with a set (including crush tubes) as I think they would be more accurate and better servicing than my modifications. I would also be grateful for 2 of the correct size (11mm) rear anti-roll bar bracket bushes as I have had to use a heavier Mk1 roll bar temporarily and would prefer to re-fit the original with correct bushes.

Making these changes, acknowledging and publicising them will, I believe, gain you much credibility in the MX5 world. There are many enthusiasts who are looking for good quality products with clear knowledge of fitment. Stating that you are aware of the issues and have rectified them can only be a positive step.

I will send the attached photos over 2 emails in case your email server has limits on attachment size.

Kind regards.

John Curran

[hobiecatman]

Johnc55, can you let me know which full bushes you got from Flo Flex to fix the front upper arms? I got a set from Flo-Flex last month which included an additional two sets of rear full none split bushes and none for the front split which is riding out of the arm? Flo Flex suggest I have the right ones but the part numbers clearly state rulb and rlob which are the ones for upper and lower rear arms. There is still a whole set of split ones in the kit.

I am in California so cannot just send them back. can you help? they say they do not make one for the front upper that is not split but have agreed that there is a problem with the front upper. It all makes no sense to me that a year later they still have these issues. I cannot use the RULB ones they sent as it is 2mm smaller outside diameter than the split "c" bushes. surely they should have sent 4 FUIB's? they say they do not make them but it is listed on the instructions. Its hard to talk to them due to the 8 hour time difference.

Help.

[Piers14]

Not sure if it helps, but I fitted a SuperPro Poly bushes last week and the upper front bushes (one piece) came with large washers to keep them in place.