N/A maximum? Is turbocharging the only way?

[ger]

if it helps at all, im running an 1.8L in my 1600 na, with a tubular mani, straight through, and backbox, JR ignition leads, blitz sus air filter and heat shield, 14.5degrees timing, organic clutch, always ran on super, threw down 151bhp, albeit still on the 1600 ecu, using a flyin miata adaptor plate to use the stock ecu and maf etc

151 bhp, is this a dyno'd figure at the wheels or an assumption at the flywheel?

What 1.8 are you using?

If its a dyno i'd like to take a look at the graph.

14 degrees timing actually yields less max power than 10, this has been proven on rolling road results, it just moves the torque curve. The only bits on your list that will give more power is the manifold and exhaust, maybe 5 bhp on an NA.

The air filter is not the major restriction on the intake side, its actually the MAF. As long as you are drawing air from the engine bay the heat shield wont make much difference.

[ger]

5. feuling system, now here i am just confused. Now i was told: i can have all kit installed, then get car on "trolly" for remaping and dyno run. then i founded this: http://www.bellengineering.net/product_ ... ucts_id=29 . As mich as i understand, thats the way of getting more fuel safely, withouth even touching ecu, or i am missing something. there is more info about FMU if you just go on it separatly. Or if ill go turbo, i just will need to buy some expencive engine managment ecu? which will cost allmoust as much as al turbo kit...

Can you remap a factory ecu? I would think its a ROM (read only) chip, also the compression on the mk2 is quite a bit higher than mk1, so watch out detonation will kill your engine very quickly.

I would imagine you will need:

turbo, manifold, down pipe: 1500-2000 euro
ECU (MS PNP): or similar 800-1000 euro
decat 2.5" exhaust system (your CAT won't like the fuel mixtures needed for forced induction): 200-500 euro
FMIC DIY: 500 euro
or FMIC Kit: 750-1200 euro
Fuel pressure reg: 120-200 euro
Rolling road time: 300-500 euro
BOV: 150-200

total if you do it all yourself around 4000 (Clutch not included stage1 fitted 550 euro)

total if you have it all done for you: god knows 6-7K maybe (provided nothing goes wrong down the road, if you cannot fit it you will not be able to fix it)

I am not trying to scare you but a DIY turbo system is not plug n play.

you maybe better off with a JR supercharge for 2700 euro + shipping here
http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3366

ger

[shadowhearth]

5. feuling system, now here i am just confused. Now i was told: i can have all kit installed, then get car on "trolly" for remaping and dyno run. then i founded this: http://www.bellengineering.net/product_ ... ucts_id=29 . As mich as i understand, thats the way of getting more fuel safely, withouth even touching ecu, or i am missing something. there is more info about FMU if you just go on it separatly. Or if ill go turbo, i just will need to buy some expencive engine managment ecu? which will cost allmoust as much as al turbo kit...

Can you remap a factory ecu? I would think its a ROM (read only) chip, also the compression on the mk2 is quite a bit higher than mk1, so watch out detonation will kill your engine very quickly.

I would imagine you will need:

turbo, manifold, down pipe: 1500-2000 euro
ECU (MS PNP): or similar 800-1000 euro
decat 2.5" exhaust system (your CAT won't like the fuel mixtures needed for forced induction): 200-500 euro
FMIC DIY: 500 euro
or FMIC Kit: 750-1200 euro
Fuel pressure reg: 120-200 euro
Rolling road time: 300-500 euro
BOV: 150-200

total if you do it all yourself around 4000 (Clutch not included stage1 fitted 550 euro)

total if you have it all done for you: god knows 6-7K maybe (provided nothing goes wrong down the road, if you cannot fit it you will not be able to fix it)

I am not trying to scare you but a DIY turbo system is not plug n play.

you maybe better off with a JR supercharge for 2700 euro + shipping here
http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3366

ger

i dont whant to be smart, but i thing you are really off the chart there, for 6-7k you can allmoust do a V8 convertion!

you can get stuff alot cheaper even from begi, simple kit would cost 1.3k eu withouth fueling system... I could get decat for 60eu for now or get full mongoose exhaust for around 300eu ( with decat)

If thats m45 based jackson supercharger, than its really a rubish kit, i read alot about it, that " bolt on" kit, needs quite a few modifications, before you can even use it, it has problems with idle revs and list goes on and go on...

Ill wait for fergy, to get those details of fella who sells second hand kit..

I have a good friend whi will help me with that, he have biulded himslef a 280hp ( wheels) Glanza, so he is prety good at turbo

[Steve]

Begi kit : 1400e
http://www.bellengineering.net/product_ ... cts_id=244

Megasquirt ecu : 173e
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega ... -p-59.html

or 490e assembled

ebay intercooler kit : 110e
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRacing ... ccessories

So, 1683e at the least.

Your 1.8 clutch (provided its in good condition) should be fine till you go over 6/7psi or so.
Custom 2.5" exhaust if you feel the need : 270e

[shadowhearth]

Begi kit : 1400e
http://www.bellengineering.net/product_ ... cts_id=244

Megasquirt ecu : 173e
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega ... -p-59.html

or 490e assembled

ebay intercooler kit : 110e
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRacing ... ccessories

So, 1683e at the least.

Your 1.8 clutch (provided its in good condition) should be fine till you go over 6/7psi or so.
Custom 2.5" exhaust if you feel the need : 270e

M8, i honestly love you . Are you using that ecu? I wouldnt be that good at assembling it... you would need some electronic skills...

[ger]

Begi kit : 1400e
Bare bones no fueling, no shipping or duty

Megasquirt ecu : 173e
or 490e assembled
No tuning or rolling road time and he said he isn't that tech, no shipping or duty

ebay intercooler kit : 110e
This will no do the trick, check out the joe perez thread on miata turbo + shipping from the states.

I'm doing an FMIC at the mo,
I am making and welding the mount, piping 110 euro without 2x90 silicones + 2x reducers and last 90 to throttle body with inlet outlet pipes for ISC/BOV, this also has to be fabed,
Bar & plate IC from ebay 100-120 shipped. BOV 100-200
realisticly you are looking at the guts of 300-500.

the 6k price was for handing your car to someone. If you do everything its more like 3k

you cant just slap a turbo on a mk 2 the engine was not designed for it.
Unlike the mk1 1.6 which is a 323 turbo without the turbo.

Go too cheap and we will be discussing this in the engine and drive train section under the heading "think my engine is fu*ced"

Have a good read over on miata turbo, talk to others who have gone down this road.

the mk2 is about 10ish:1 compression even at 6-7psi you will do damage if your set up is not right.

having said that, go for it see what happens, I'm curious.

Steve you should be giving him responsible advice.

I have a turbo set up for a while now and it cost a lot more than i thought it would when i looked at the greddy kit at first and there is still a good bit to do just to have a safe reliable system at 6-8psi.

[Steve]

Are you using that ecu? I wouldnt be that good at assembling it... you would need some electronic skills...

Nope, not using that ECU but if I hadn't bought my current one I would be!
Yeah, just buy the assembled one, it comes with tuned maps to get you started.

[Steve]

Begi kit : 1400e
Bare bones no fueling, no shipping or duty

Megasquirt ecu : 173e
or 490e assembled
No tuning or rolling road time and he said he isn't that tech, no shipping or duty

Of course there is p&p & duty if ordering from outside the EU to consider, get them to send it via USPS international to save a fortune. Assembled ECU comes with maps.

ebay intercooler kit : 110e
This will no do the trick, check out the joe perez thread on miata turbo + shipping from the states.

The point is.. its not expensive as 500e
Did your Intercooler from ebay not workout in the end then?

If you do everything its more like 3k

Which is my point. If you go used you could prob do it for half that again!

you cant just slap a turbo on a mk 2 the engine was not designed for it.
Unlike the mk1 1.6 which is a 323 turbo without the turbo.

These people seem happy with their cheap Begi kits on their mk2s' :
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=341780

Steve you should be giving him responsible advice.

You should read my posts on page one of this thread!
This post was just a list of alternative prices and places to buy them. I did not suggest slapping on a turbo nor running without fuelling managment.

I have a turbo set up for a while now and it cost a lot more than i thought it would when i looked at the greddy kit at first and there is still a good bit to do just to have a safe reliable system at 6-8psi.

Whats bits are you missing? I might have some of them...
I'll have 370cc saab injectors for sale as soon as I get round to changing them out if they are any good to you?

Steve

[shadowhearth]

Begi kit : 1400e
Bare bones no fueling, no shipping or duty

Megasquirt ecu : 173e
or 490e assembled
No tuning or rolling road time and he said he isn't that tech, no shipping or duty

Of course there is p&p & duty if ordering from outside the EU to consider, get them to send it via USPS international to save a fortune. Assembled ECU comes with maps.

ebay intercooler kit : 110e
This will no do the trick, check out the joe perez thread on miata turbo + shipping from the states.

The point is.. its not expensive as 500e
Did your Intercooler from ebay not workout in the end then?

If you do everything its more like 3k

Which is my point. If you go used you could prob do it for half that again!

you cant just slap a turbo on a mk 2 the engine was not designed for it.
Unlike the mk1 1.6 which is a 323 turbo without the turbo.

These people seem happy with their cheap Begi kits on their mk2s' :
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=341780

Steve you should be giving him responsible advice.

You should read my posts on page one of this thread!
This post was just a list of alternative prices and places to buy them. I did not suggest slapping on a turbo nor running without fuelling managment.

I have a turbo set up for a while now and it cost a lot more than i thought it would when i looked at the greddy kit at first and there is still a good bit to do just to have a safe reliable system at 6-8psi.

Whats bits are you missing? I might have some of them...
I'll have 370cc saab injectors for sale as soon as I get round to changing them out if they are any good to you?

Steve

thx again m8, now i am getting a bit confused, could you sort it out:

begi fuel system( fmu+fuel pump) is a mechanical way to get away with ecu fuel managment. It will do up to 5-6psi? As much as i understand with begi fuel system or Ecu you linked, i wouldnt even need RR or any sot of remaping at tuners?

As much as i see, this turbo kit "begi shangai-s" is complete. Just no ecu, but i could get it sorted with begi fueling system, or that ecu you linked?

[Steve]

thx again m8, now i am getting a bit confused, could you sort it out:

begi fuel system( fmu+fuel pump) is a mechanical way to get away with ecu fuel managment. It will do up to 5-6psi? As much as i understand with begi fuel system or Ecu you linked, i wouldnt even need RR or any sot of remaping at tuners?

As much as i see, this turbo kit "begi shangai-s" is complete. Just no ecu, but i could get it sorted with begi fueling system, or that ecu you linked?

Best to read all of this (its great!), you will understand your options much more clearly then :
http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/
here is the section on Begi : http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/begi
The ECU's are also listed.

[shadowhearth]

thx again m8, now i am getting a bit confused, could you sort it out:

begi fuel system( fmu+fuel pump) is a mechanical way to get away with ecu fuel managment. It will do up to 5-6psi? As much as i understand with begi fuel system or Ecu you linked, i wouldnt even need RR or any sot of remaping at tuners?

As much as i see, this turbo kit "begi shangai-s" is complete. Just no ecu, but i could get it sorted with begi fueling system, or that ecu you linked?

Best to read all of this (its great!), you will understand your options much more clearly then :
http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/
here is the section on Begi : http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/begi
The ECU's are also listed.

ah chears again m8, btw about that ecu, i understand its prety much universal, you just put software you need for it? do they supply software for mx5 aswell? Becouse i am really tempted even getting it now, it will be usefull anyway! You cant go wrong for such money, if it is good quality thought...

[Steve]

They do. See here :
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/-c-40.html?osCsid=0fc4ff5c5c47609d48cc6f6cbd27cf8c

Thats exactly what several of us have done, installed the ECU first, studied it (still hazy on a lot of areas myself) , then later added turbos etc..


ah jeez... and this is available as an addon..
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/lcdash-digital-touchscreen-dash-display-for-megasquirt-p-167.html?osCsid=0fc4ff5c5c47609d48cc6f6cbd27cf8c

[ger]

Steve/shadowhearth

First off i never said anything about the quality of the begi stuff, bell have a great rep. My main point was to be realistic about pricing and what you need.

Shadowhearth said he has little mechanical experience, so if he is doing it himself he has a steep learning curve ahead of him, this is why i suggested the JR supercharger kit. there is a lot to be said for SC'd engines, i have had two supercharged cars and the everyday driving experience is better than a turbo'd engine, the last supercharged lancia i had could make 170lbs of torque at 2000rpm (take into account it was a 1977 8V with a roots blower) it felt fast all the time not just above 4000 rpm.

Of course you can buy everything secondhand and save money but all the products and prices listed were for new stuff and its all in the USA.
The prices look great until you add your duty and postage, its a significant cost and should be factored in, last year i looked at two things in the USA, a FM turbo heatshield for $50 (great price) but the postage was $55, also a boost pipe from M-tuned $120 / postage $130 and both of these where under the duty threshold of 127 euro (i thing thats the limit now) if its over that you have to ad 5-13% duty + 21% VAT. There are some ways around it or you could be lucky and slip by, but in the current climate i doubt it.
So on the std begi s kit at 1400 euro shipping should be around 300 and kit + duty + vat = 1900 total around 2200 euro, thats a long way from 1400.

I'm not here to put anyone off modifying their car its great fun and i have been tinkering since my first car 20yrs ago.

Good luck shadowhearth with the mods.

Steve, the IC is on the go at the moment, Fergal bought the same bits with the intention of doing it together but i have had so much on my plate of late i have not had spare time.

Thanks for the offer of the injectors but after the FMIC I'm not doing anything else till the spring, don't do much winter driving, we have got a shopping trolley i use for day to day stuff.

ger

[shadowhearth]

They do. See here :
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/-c-40.html?osCsid=0fc4ff5c5c47609d48cc6f6cbd27cf8c

Thats exactly what several of us have done, installed the ECU first, studied it (still hazy on a lot of areas myself) , then later added turbos etc..


ah jeez... and this is available as an addon..
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/lcdash-digital-touchscreen-dash-display-for-megasquirt-p-167.html?osCsid=0fc4ff5c5c47609d48cc6f6cbd27cf8c

that is kind of different m8, that first ecu you showed is abselutly empty i imagine, so do they supply software for it aswell? becouse the thing you linked as abselutly diffrent. Its just allready done ecu for mx5.

Thought getting ecu first then learning it, and getting turbo first is actually briliant idea!

[Steve]

You need to read the links dude :
"Tuning software is free for download and regularly updated with new features."

Talk to others with the same setup, like the guy here in post 42/43 :
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.ph ... 444&page=2

More reading :
http://www.diyautotune.com/softwarelinks.htm