The Lisbon thing & Fabfiveferg putting his foot in it

[Ivan]

Not my cup of tea but maybe somebodys else....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moYbuDzszcg

That really should be in the funnies section fergus.
It's a bit off topic.

[Stig]

VOTE YES FOR JOBS - WHAT A LOAD OF CR*P .

WHERE ARE ALL THE JOBS THAT VOTING YES WILL PROVIDE?

OH! I FORGOT - JOBS FOR THE BOYS and OUR POLITICAL BENEFACTORS WITH A BIG SALARY AND A BEEFED UP PENISION TO BOOT and just in case they have to resign, due to incompedence, A GOLDEN HANDSHAKE. TOSSERS!!!

For that campagn slogan alone I'm voting [color=#FF0000]NO

I do agree that a Yes vote will not bring 1 extra single job to Ireland, not 1.
It'll make a few extra one's out in Brussels for a few eurocrats but thats it.
Still, to ground the debate we all must get away from the emotive feelings about how we are being treated right now,or what's being pushed at us by a bias media in our bankrupt country governed by a bunch of inept ministers who know nothing about running a business, because thats what a country is at the end of the day, a business!
Whats coming in, expenditure,cash flow,investments,future planning,goals,stategy, (incl social ones or lack of in our case) whats going out, etc - all of which requires business talent and compentancies that the current shower of green/FF toolz are completely devoid of. Fecking haplessly incompetent, all of em' in FF especially. I can't think of one minister who is especially good/experienced/has good aptitude for his role/dept? Can you?

Still, nonetheless, standing back and not taking the above into consideration, I firmly believe that Lisbon is a poor deal for Ireland. We loose so much and gain shag all. So, we keep a commissioner (a FF appointee more likely) and our own ability to regulate our tax and a few other gubinzes...wow. But you got to ask yourself what we've given away now, in the past and in the future.Fishing rights has destroyed our fisheries industry (one of the best indigenous resources we had, and we gave it away, thanks EU! ), Farming (Ireland's biggest industry going bankrupt right now folks, right now, thanks to EU policies) and look at our Gas resources being plundered by Shell and peoples lives being made a misery in the west of Ireland - again, thanks EU and your laws.
All this happened on FF's watch while we enjoyed lots of EU grants and money coming in, but people are slow to remember what we lost??. And we'll loose more in the future - HISTORY HAS A NASTY HABIT OF REPEATING ITSELF!
Time I think for a change of thinking, Time to stand back and say to the EU, Hey, hang on, we're happy to be part of the EU and as a matter of fact, we want to be central in it, but do not expect us to sign up for a treaty that is in essence a bad deal for us and our citizens!

Few EU citizens in their countries a getting the chance to vote in a referendum to retify this. If there was a referendum in the UK, it'd never have been passed.
The ONUS is on us to stop this treaty for the good of europe.
The fact that we're being ask again by this gov (who are bullied by the EU in it) shows that they don't give a fuck about you and me.......and are afraid/not able to handle the EU when they go out to Brussels. More inept governance.

ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, I'll be voting NO.






.[/color]

[fabfiveferg]

ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, I'll be voting NO.






.[/color]

Djeez it took you a long time to say it

Yup a No vote is the way to go for me too. This is a s**t deal for the citizens of Europe. They're trying to sell us a pig in a poke

[Stig]

ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, I'll be voting NO.






.[/color]

Djeez it took you a long time to say it

Yup a No vote is the way to go for me too. This is a s**t deal for the citizens of Europe. They're trying to sell us a pig in a poke

+1

[sidewaysreilly]

On the fishing thing, if we kept our fishing rights in 72, where were we gonna sell all this fish.....ireland??? No way. In the 50s 60s we had no market for the abundant stocks of fish.

[Stig]

On the fishing thing, if we kept our fishing rights in 72, where were we gonna sell all this fish.....ireland??? No way. In the 50s 60s we had no market for the abundant stocks of fish.

In fairness, this is an erronious arguement. The 50's and 60's were very different times, era's and ecomonies. With the transport links and factory ships of this age, if we still had the rights and no stupid EU restirctions, we'd have a booming fishing industry.
The EU remember, is the crowd who brought in other stupid laws preventing bendy banana's being sold............total bollix for Brussels and is indictive of what happens when you allow ejits with no realism in law making, make laws.

[sidewaysreilly]

this is getting boring lads, really. I wanna go sideways but the mx is nearly 500 km away..............boo hooo

[franksm]

I am in the 'No' camp, not just because I am a Nordy stealer-of-jobs-and-your-women but because I hate that the Suits didn't believe the first vote, and are going to bully us into providing 'the right answer'

[sidewaysreilly]

IM VOTING NO. NEVER NEVER NEVER 8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888899999999999999999999999999999999000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 TO FRONT WHEEL DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL, yOu OnlY sTEaL oUR wOmEn CaUse Yis ArE alL uGLy...........way hey!!!!!!!

[Ivan]

On the fishing thing, if we kept our fishing rights in 72, where were we gonna sell all this fish.....ireland??? No way. In the 50s 60s we had no market for the abundant stocks of fish.

Because we had no one to sell fish to in the 50's and 60's.
Hardly a good reason to vote yes.

[sundance]

My reasons for voting NOOOOO!!!!! (Again!)

1. It institutionalises the arms industry and encourages nations to spend more in this area.
2. The rights contained in the Charter are subject to limitations flowing from the rules of the single market.. I.E. even though there is “a charter of workers rights” they can be overturned by the European Court of Justice in the case of something like the Irish Ferries case.
3. The EU is not democratic. Decisions are made by the commission who are unelected and are heavily influenced by the European round table of industrialists - a big business lobby group.
4. It strengthens the EU's ability to impose service charges like water charges etc Basicly the ethos is everything should be opened up to the market - eventually that will lead to a push for privatisation of things like social insurance - i.e. US!
5.Lastly and not least - you voted no the last time. It's the exact same treaty.

Wasn't even going to get into this arguement but - i've spoken!! Just so angry that i have to cast my vote again for the same thing.

[Stig]

My reasons for voting NOOOOO!!!!! (Again!)

1. It institutionalises the arms industry and encourages nations to spend more in this area.
2. The rights contained in the Charter are subject to limitations flowing from the rules of the single market.. I.E. even though there is “a charter of workers rights” they can be overturned by the European Court of Justice in the case of something like the Irish Ferries case.
3. The EU is not democratic. Decisions are made by the commission who are unelected and are heavily influenced by the European round table of industrialists - a big business lobby group.
4. It strengthens the EU's ability to impose service charges like water charges etc Basicly the ethos is everything should be opened up to the market - eventually that will lead to a push for privatisation of things like social insurance - i.e. US!
5.Lastly and not least - you voted no the last time. It's the exact same treaty.

Wasn't even going to get into this arguement but - i've spoken!! Just so angry that i have to cast my vote again for the same thing.

+1 x 100

5 very good points. Was'nt aware about no 4, thats a feckin cheek.

[ger]

Personally speaking, I'm self employed (have no rights to anything, unemployment Benefit, Sick benefit, disability Benefit and even though i pay PRSI I am only entitled to non contributory pension.

Add to that I am an atheist, so my children are not welcome in 95% of our national schools, even though my taxes are funding them.

Up until recently I was one half of a cohabiting couple so had no rights to my own children, no guardianship rights nada.

Come lads on the no side we live in a fuukin banana republic, If we had say the danish system I could see something worth protecting.

All our political parties are self serving, and corrupt, we have to pay too much for everything and we have shitty weather, the irish gov even blessed us with VRT.

I will be voting YES for many other reasons but mainly because I want to see change in this country within my lifetime.

[Steve]

Heheh brilliant, that takes it to a new level altogether

"Vote Yes for better weather!"

[Midlifecrisis]

What the EU does.... cntd...
-Dell make 3000 folks redundant in Limerick and are rewarded by the EU who sanction the Polish governments eu54million grant to Dell for relocating their facility there
-Spain is permitted to provide sanctuary to our criminal fraternity without sanction
-Turkey.... their membership cometh whence we shall all be eating "Kurds" & whey as is their custom
-QMV.... ho ho... watch that space
-Self-amending treaty (as previously stated)....another larger version of the west-link toll bridge deal
.......

and meanwhile, Norway seems to be doing fine - they still appear to have a market for their fish, they own/manage their own natural resources - gas/oil, and haven't slipped back to the stone age....

NO!